Rear Tyres Scrubbed On Inside - Like Tracking

[Scorpiorefugee]

MOT today failed due to badly scrubbed rear tyres. This is the second time this has happened but on different Galaxys. This time both were damaged by about the same amount, i.e. a tyre with about 25K in 3 years and 75% of remaining tread but inside 5cm almost bald. Previously I had much the same but on my old MK1 LX. In that case the replacements did not seem to be affected and I am hoping that the problem will nor recur. The damaged Yokohamas have been replaced with Avons which have always given me good service, typically 50/60K fronts and 80K + rears so it will hopefully be some time before I notice any problems.

The only clues I can offer is that I increased the rear tyre pressures to 41psi to carry a heavy load and didn't bother to reduce them and also that in the past 6 months I suffered an intermittent heavy vibration from the back building up 40-50mph which eventually turned out to be a sticking caliper causing one of the pads to vibrate against the disk.

I seem to remember seeing a similar post 4/5 years ago but have not been able to find any other similar reports so any thoughts or suggestions would be interesting.

Thanks.

[Scorpiorefugee]

I've just found some useful info on this in an earlier topic. Funny, search for 'rear tyre' didn't work but 'rear tyres' did.

[acecard]

Not likely to be the tyre pressure - 41lb is certainly not excessive on the galaxy.

[snowytop]

Hi, this sounds very similar to what happened on ours about a year ago,

 

We had a new tyre fitted to the rear passenger side and the inside edge scrubbed off quite quickly just as you described.

 

The previous tyre was fine, and the tyre since has been fine.

 

We checked the bearings brakes bushes etc and found nothing we thought worn enough to explain it.

 

The tyre appeared to be on the rim correctly and didn't look in any way unusual, I can't remember the make but it was £90 ish.

 

I went back to the tyre depo, they gave it lots of ooohs and aaaahhs and fiddled about a bit, said that the tyre was fine and blamed the car sayng that it must have hit the curb and bent something,

 

but When its your own car you know if you've curbed it and we hadn't.

 

The upshot was I had to buy a new tyre (but I did try a different tyre depo and a different tyre make) and as yet the fault has not returned and nothing has been changed on the car.

 

I'm sorry this doesn't help you much but I wonder if any other members have had the same as we have?

 

Best of luck, and I hope the replacements are ok.

[acecard]

As it happens, I have had experiences specifically with Avon tyres wearing unevenly, but only on the Galaxy, not on other cars,

On replacement with a different make, all was ok.

Not much help again - sorry

[Scorpiorefugee]

Thanks acecard and snowytop. I've been having a good browse of this database and it does seem that this problem is not unusual and falls into the category of 'no-one knows' or 'no-one is saying' but the only constructive suggestions or success stories relate to worn or soft bushes. This does make some sense as my understanding of the suspension geometry suggests that problems in this area would allow the wheels to swing back and toe out during braking which with a front wheel drive is the one time when the rear suspension is stressed in a fore/aft direction.

I've checked the camber with a spirit level and this suggests a negative camber of 1 degree on both sides and my best attempts at checking the tracking after several tries come up with a consistent approx toe in of about 1 degree which would, if anything, give an opposite problem and may even be designed to give a no stress position to compensate for a little give in the rubber bushes. These figures are of course subject to checks with professional equipment but I have used the same methods to solve front wheel tracking problems when 'professionals' using proper tools had failed miserably. But that was back in the days when the lights used to go out at night and TV remotes consisted of a long stick with a rubber bung on the end.

My next act is to get the bushes replaced just in case and then watch and wait.

[gregers]

iirc think i put a post up about this on a m8s mk2 05 plate zetec.

was going through rear tyres and spent a few quid trying to get to the bottom of the problem.

as said above either fords are keeping quite or they generally aint got a scooby.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Ay Up Gregers. I've just dug out the old Haynes manual and that makes a point that some of the rear suspension bushes have off centre holes and the replacements have to be the same and fitted with the off centre hole correctly aligned. Now that opens up a whole new can of worms if the unknowing have been changing them blindly.

Unfortunately, mine was fine for the first 140K and I am not aware of anything that could have caused it so it has to be something repairable. I've got a 250 mile round trip on Sunday and a 500 mile trip on Tuesday so I'll be having a close look at the treads.

 

P.S. I've almost decided on a 2009/10 Ghia replacement as I can't come to terms with any of the competition and the Ghias seem to offer the best all round package.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Just to progress and hopefully close this topic I now have moved the new Avons to the front and put the part worn fronts at the rear, one of which is the original spare from new fitted onto a refurbished alloy along with a matching replacement from a couple of years ago. After the better part of 1000 miles there is no visible sign of the problem returning. I can only assume that it all started with the pad vibration/sticking problem from about 6 months ago. Having mentioned that I had a similar problem on an earlier now defunct '98 Gal I now recall that I had an intermittent sticking caliper on the same side as the tyre which failed some time later but cannot be sure as this was some years ago. There may be a link but then again....

My MOT problem on the front brake balance problem was down to the nearside disk which had one side severely pitted over the whole surface while the OS one was like new after about 40K so it was new disks and pads for that. Unfortunately, the next morning in the wee small hours on the way to Keswick It developed a severe steering vibration on braking so the next day it was disks and pads again which now seems OK. Prior to the MOT it seemed to be driving perfectly well and the dangerous wear on the rear tyres was not visible to a casual inspection and the tyres outwardly looked in almost new condition so I suppose I should consider myself grateful for the MOT system, albeit the best part of £600 poorer for this and an oil change.

Prior to this, my other Gal did 100K on one set of pads before it died and my last Granada Scorpio did 160K on the original pads and disks so it's all a bit of a shock.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Scorpiorefugee

[Scorpiorefugee]

This just to possibly give an answer to this if anyone else has this problem. My son now has this car and has done 10k + miles. When he took it away (sob!) the NS rear was once again showing signs of scrubbing and I was concerned that it may be close to self destruct again. However, now after 6 months it still looks much the same as when he took it. My conclusion is that the problem is caused or initiated by the rear suspension not coping with heavy loads. This is based on the fact that prior to handing the car over I had been using it for moving a lot of heavy building materials and this also coincides with the the previous 3 occasions when I have had the same problem on my other (now dead) MKI galaxy and about a year earlier on this one. Both cars had high mileage at the time.

 

It is interesting to note that these are the only occasions when I have had to replace rear tyres. I've never had to replace them because they had worn out.

[acecard]

 This is based on the fact that prior to handing the car over I had been using it for moving a lot of heavy building materials 

aha - now you tell us!

Don't know how heavy you mean - I have used for breeze blocks on occasion but only driving slowly and carefully from Wickes back home - about 5 miles.

Its been used choc a blok with household stuff ferrying back and forth to uni etc - but not a greater weight than 5 people sitiing in the back.

I wouldn't put any great weights in the back without expecting trouble.

I once finished a Citroen Visa's suspension and rear wheel bearings doing that - I was only believing the TV advert which showed about 13 people hetting out of one - silly me...

[Scorpiorefugee]

Er...

 

400 house bricks or 500Kg sand. That sort of thing. Just a normal sort of load for a decent MPV really. Anything up to about half a ton.

 

It didn't seem to cause any trouble when they were newer so it might be a symptom of abuse or just a softening with age. 

 

Couldn't do it in a MKIII though.  :49:   :43:

Edited October 14, 2013 by Scorpiorefugee

[sparky Paul]

My back tyres scalloped the inside 2" of the tread when the back shockers were worn out.

[Scorpiorefugee]

Paul, 

I wondered about that but on mine the problem came on quickly and then stabilised without any remedial action. It does seem very elusive and, as I think I have mentioned earlier, it may have been caused by a peculiar rear brake problem which caused a violent vibration due to the pads oscillating.

Sadly, this sort of problem always seems way beyond the abilities of most. if not all, of the main dealers.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that it is the rear suspension rubber bushes which are the problem. However, past experience with shockers strongly supports your comments.

What worries me about the MKIII is that the bush assemblies cost hundreds of pounds just for the parts.

More "Progress"? 

 

Ron.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Scorpiorefugee

[seatkid]

The 1st Alhambra I owned, had standard 195/65/15 tyres that had 38psi+ and I noticed the rears were badly worn/sawtoothed on the inside edges at 25k. I didnt regularly carry much load, but could visually see there was a marked negative camber on the wheels with no load that only got worse with load. I put it down to bad geometry from the factory and I didnt know if or how it could be adjusted. In the end it didnt matter as it was written off a few weeks later.  :o 

[sparky Paul]

That's one of the problems with semi-trailing arm suspension, the camber always changes with suspension height.

 

That's good for cornering, when you want the wheels to remain square to the road surface, but bad for load carrying as excess weight on the suspension will push both sides down into negative camber, and the wheels tend to sit on the inside of the tyres.

 

I guess tired springs would give you a similar problem, or even lowering springs if the camber is not reset for the new ride height.

[Scorpiorefugee]

I think that is coming round to my habit of using it as a builder's van.

Back in history I had a series of Granadas and a Granada Scorpio and I frequently loaded them down the the rubber stops and never had a problem but they were a different class of vehicle. The last 3 all went well over the 200K mark and I never had any problems with tyre wear, front or back. They also used trailing arm suspension. I can never understand how anyone can claim that the Mondeo is a suitable replacement for the discontinued Granada. They don't even come close.